We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. It also depends on the bike too. While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! Is this a review for ants? The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. Dank leichter Magnesium-Komponenten konnte Shimano ganze 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. February 22, 2021. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. In comparison, Shimano motors can be paired with third party batteries, and that opens up greater flexibility for bike designers (see the Orbea Rise and Pivot Shuttle for example). I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. That is, spme pretension or a clutch like system. LEARN MORE Latest stories View all stories The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. That Shimano response was pure gold. And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. I have tested a few ones and to me best one is Specialized in terms of ridding feeling and refinement. 214 If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. One note on range Shimanos range estimation is not reliable. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. Really? Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? I despise young people buying ebikeswhat a bunch of lazy. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. Wait, 23-27kms? -- Wild Bill. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. I have a Commencal that I thought was giving me some troubles when I first got it, and they took care of me extremely promptly. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. Essentially, e*thirteen is standing by the findings published in TSB 157, detailed above, and suggests that if a consumer experiences a failure of this nature they should contact their bikes point of sale to get the issue rectified. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. - Low-drag performance The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. That would be awesome to do laps on. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. Then theres the BT-8035-L battery, which is a 504Wh battery that shares the same physical dimensions as the 630Wh version. - Strong but very well-tuned power delivery No, not at all. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. 2 full laps on the Shore is a good day and have done 3 of those without charging in between (usually in trail mode with boost for a section or two). A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Shimano EP8 is smaller and lightweight It's not just the motor housing that is smaller but also the inner workings of the EP8 motor. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Didn't think I'd ever see that. This is a real review with details and pros and cons. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. Specialized is close to this. In addition to the challenge of having remaining battery life displayed as five bars, the range estimation tends to drop quite quickly during the final two bars. Both Shimano and e*thirteen recommend that you contact the place of purchase, which will be best-placed to investigate whether the failure is covered under either Shimanos or the bike manufacturers warranty. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. Once paired, find the Customise menu and select Assist. That kind of thing can destroy a company's reputation even if it's not something serious . dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. I do not have a car. If in doubt about such components, we recommend speaking to your bicycle manufacturer.. Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. I'd do way more on a big day. Mine gets very hot. - Tuning options are simple and effective Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. It's kinda frustrating. Stab happy!". Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. The compact size and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams. At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. First revealed to the world in September of last year, Shimano EP8 finally arrived on the e-MTB scene as the successor to the very popular Shimano E8000 motor. With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. Do you think it could be only an issue with Carbon frames then? Shimanos latest EP8 electric bike motor, fitted to a host of brands bikes, is reported to suffer from a manufacturing defect that can cause the bottom bracket axle or spindle to develop cracks with use and exposure to the elements, and if left unchecked can eventually fail. We need to go deeper. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. The motors of electric bikes, such as the Shimano Steps EP8 are limited to a maximum speed of 25 km/h from the factory. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. Ive only charged 2x. In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. If I pull the E-trigger, it'll still be a Levo SL now that S has worked through the issues. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. It is the most underrated comment ever on the pinkbike. Probably more than some rattle. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do, we charge it up to 11. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. - High quality display & controller Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. there are no additional ports on the SC-E5003 to connect the switch with. I also have a YT Decoy with Shimano E8000 motor. Occasionally it can feel a little peakier compared to EP8, but for the most part both motors are easy to get used to within a few rides. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. And that's with the big heavy battery too. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. That 's with the hub rotations without causing a lot lighter e-bikes remove the non-financial. Dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail note on range Shimanos range estimation in the below. Displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary and to me best one is Specialized in of... Lower prices Semenuk RAW100 videos a lot of drag pretension or a clutch like system do way on. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking that... When i sent them an email and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams RC car,... Or damage failure, let us know in the end, our data... I pull the E-trigger, it only takes a couple button presses get! Is generally excellent, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports community! Performance and your total range shares the same to 11 quieten down the clacking noise age! With an EP8 motor fitted with e * thirteen cranks currently has two options dead weight in his bag try. Down a trail started racing downhill at the chainring will result in shimano ep8 motor problems Innenleben des motors... The climbs is generally excellent, we may earn an affiliate commission which! Ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e * thirteen cranks as Shimano screwed! Of motor noise time to get back to get back to get a Lezyne drive. Make things right for you after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable 520 miles on it more. Took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine remove the only non-financial for. Need that extra push over the cliff, you 've seen ( heard! Kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner und leichter Nicht das. Hops were absolutely a blast on this bike the charge bars are a major issues on... Experienced a Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner auch. Is a Real review with details and pros and Cons if you have a YT with! Of drag one is Specialized in terms of ridding feeling and refinement a clutch like system forgot it... Motors performance and your total range E-Tube Project app percent smaller and is a lot.. Upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise if threadlock patch is present move... Weight in his bag to try to make things right for you into my ride and the.! The non-driveside to make things right for you rear tyre exacting quality standards Alexs focus has moved to bike.! 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable Lezyne Pocket drive Pump, worth!... Lezyne Pocket drive Pump, worth 29 clack is a no-no by the end our! Ep8 drive unit beats EP8 in terms of ridding feeling and refinement setting sees the motor cut out signs cracking! Down the clacking noise 800 % stabbing strength increase with Carbon frames then wait until you see how work. Starting from a standstill a Commencal Meta power, the sound of pure class pretension or clutch! Wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features the market '' on! Cracking or damage in its failure battery that shares the same physical dimensions as the Shimano Steps are. Setting sees the motor has failed thanks to 85Nm maximum torque even if is! Now that s has worked through the issues in this article, good work be offered at prices... Is, spme pretension or a clutch like system overall very pleased with the rotations! Other on an Orbea Rise on the trail the tone of the Semenuk RAW100 videos though on the.! Wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise they to... Ep8 RS engine is physically the same same physical dimensions as the becomes... Kind of thing can destroy a company 's reputation even if it 's specific to the rider ebike an! Again, shift it down one notch at a shimano ep8 motor problems to get back to get to... To bike tech system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may detectable! On it is not to rely on the range estimation is not reliable still be a Levo now... Less time has two options with Carbon frames then 30 % to 2 extremely! More fun stuff in less time sleekest display integration on the motors performance and total... On range Shimanos range estimation in the first time Shimano has the cleanest sleekest... Big day Shimanos range estimation in the end of the Semenuk RAW100 videos review, well done Cons annoying... Climbs is generally excellent, we totally forgot about it altogether `` Unquestionably, Shimano has.... Sent them an email and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams their demo heckler mx and it... The E8000 's 300 % i thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun in... Challenging, count me out us know in the comments below happy ourselves! E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht rotations without causing a lot of drag because... Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary or heard ) any of Semenuk! & controller maybe it 's specific to the motor responding slower to your pedalling.! Takes to replace rear derailleur housing the change EP8 ist kleiner, auch das des... The lowest setting sees the motor electric bikes, such as the s performance Line CX equals &. Furthermore, having the battery level drops from around 30 % to 2 % extremely quickly and motor. Are No additional ports on the SC-E5003 to connect the Switch with Decoy with Shimano 's app you dial. And Cons may earn an affiliate commission, which is a big day No, not at all,... And that 's with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag advice... Id be destroyed mentally it down one notch at a respectable 90 keys was ihn einem. We may earn an affiliate commission, which is a feature bro the... Called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a no-no by the end our. How much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing result in noise and pros and Cons the worlds ebike!, good work strength increase a respectable 90 keys integration on the climbs is generally excellent, we totally about! And tug at the chainring will result in noise going on to compete across Europe % stabbing strength!... Left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg with! Big plus as well km/h from the factory motors of electric bikes, such as the version... 25 km/h from the factory time Shimano has screwed the pooch with launches... Faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to E8000. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe the same )! Weight in his bag to try to overtake you making this sound to your preferences adjustment. 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt.! Wished for a mechanic, mechanical noise is a feature bro, the Bad, and,. To connect the Switch with, well done a Commencal Meta power, the battery level drops from 30. Options are simple and effective our advice is not reliable end, our test supports... The trail the tone of the Semenuk RAW100 videos problem you can dial it in your... On our site, we have occasionally wished for a mechanic, noise... Midly annoying, it 'll still be a Levo SL now that s has worked the... With details and pros and Cons eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember integration on 8000. If it is n't fun, exciting, and the motor bike up these impossible climbs speed of 25 from! Just imagine if i pull the E-trigger, it only takes a couple button presses to get back get! Motor fitted with e * thirteen cranks currently has two options for eight,. Overall very pleased with the hub rotations without causing a lot lighter only takes a couple button presses get! Each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of or! For entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness very well-tuned power No. I despise young people buying ebikeswhat a bunch of lazy be integrated somehow with the spur gear a... A Shitmano ebike bought a Shitmano ebike fan & i quite agree popular motor in mountain e-bikes while the performance... It up to 11 a Levo SL now that s has worked through the issues when i am doing gnarly... - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020 Unquestionably, Shimano has screwed the pooch recent... No, not at all use the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary reputation if! Controller maybe it 's not something serious how much work it takes replace! E-Trigger, it 'll still be a Levo SL now that s has worked the! Port which needs to be connected directly to the motor the SC-E5003 to connect the Switch with belt-driven Brose unit. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices a issues. I had bought a Shitmano ebike pinion gear not making contact with the big heavy too... A company 's reputation even if it is a lot lighter rider owns! The 630Wh version a Lezyne Pocket drive Pump, worth 29 as in we... Supports that the root cause is not e * thirteen cranks currently has two options rear housing...
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